By now everyone’s probably just as sick of the ICC five mans as I am. Since I’ve been grinding them for gear, I’ve done them over and over and over, first the regular versions and then the heroics. So I’ve become intimately familiar with the escape from Arthas sequence, in every way that it can possibly be done. Under six minute speed runs, from the front, from behind, failing spectacularly and dying in a blaze of icy death… every way.
And I’m here to tell you folks, that the exploit isn’t worth it.
The fight is intended to be done from the front side, which should be fairly obvious when looked at from the context of events. Why Blizzard doesn’t fix the exploit, I honestly don’t know. It ruins the challenge of the fight, the fact that it’s intended to be a dps race, and it makes things significantly harder for those of us who aren’t DPSing.
Here’s what happens when you do the encounter from the front: The adds spawn. The ghouls fly all over the place, because that’s what ghouls do. The larger adds get pulled by the tank and the ghouls are easily rounded up. If the DPS is at all sufficient, everything is burned down in ample time to advance to the next barrier. The healer doesn’t want to scream and kill anyone.
Now, let’s see the encounter again from the back: The adds spawn. The ghouls fly all over the place because that’s what they do. The larger adds spawn all over the place, probably on top of the healer, because murphy’s law dictates that that’s what they should do. The DPS starts in on everything all at once without waiting for the tank to control aggro. The tank has to run to the adds and try to pick them up, but quickly runs out of taunts. While he’s doing that, he’s also towing along an abomination which spews diseased slime all over the party members. Meanwhile, the healer is rapidly running out of mana trying to control the completely unnecessary (and huge) amounts of damage flying all over the place, while dispelling the green puke. But the whole fight is so much easier for the DPS since they don’t have the time pressure of beating Arthas on them…
Really folks, is it worth it?
Have the DPS to get through it the right way, or gtfo.
{ 23 comments… read them below or add one }
were you waiting for them by the original door (there's a little ledge, or were you actualy trying to follow him. I've done that fight both normal and lets just wait for them in a back way and honestly – they were coming to us at about the same rate. they weren't spawning at random in the middle of the group, but rather running up to us, the same way as they do when you do it the right way.
I'll be honest, I wasn't sold on the idea until I tried it and let me tell you, it was actually easier to heal :/ yeah, it goes completely against the lore of the instance, but I'm lazy /shifty eyes
Wow, that's so not my experience at all.
Every time I've done it we've waited off to the side to let him get a good way past before following him up the tunnel… and every time utter chaos breaks loose, and an abomination lands on my head.
Maybe it's the tanks?
it was probably the tanks… I've only done it that way once and I've never tanked it that way before (I just feel more comfortable making my group hump the ice wall while I drop a consecrate on them so that whatever melee mobs come go for me immediately (casters I silence with either my captain America, hammer, or holy wrath.) I've yet to do it o na dk, but I imagine it would be similat with DG and strangulate helping me deal with casters.
that tank I did it with never moved away from that ledge a the start, just let the mobs come to us. last wave too a bit longer in arriving, but because we were so far away, the double wave turned into single one. we didn't start running towards the chest until achievement popped up O_o
Yeah, it is the tanks (and maybe the DPS) in that case.
Group together, tank a bit out in front (between the party and Arthas) – the ghouls all jump to the tank, AOE for aggro, the aboms spawn on/near the tank so they should be easy to pick up and the zombie mages will spawn in front of the tank, so they are easy to target.
Waiting on the ledge makes the timed/ach much much harder, but gives a new tank or borderline dps time to handle the wave without having to worry about getting blown of the cliff or simply smooshed by Arthas. And, since Arthas will happily summon the next wave without regard to your having handled the previous one, it isn't actually an exploit…just a crutch.
It's the tanks. Tanking and healing it using the "follow" strategy is much easier, and I liked to do it before the fix simply because PUG DPS often fail at life.
All but melee should stay at max range behind the tank, so everything that comes the party's way goes through him. As a warrior I can range silence one caster every minute, and just spell reflect tank the other one. Some tanks might not have the situational awareness (read=ability to turn the camera angle and turned-on V bars) required to turn something's back towards the group AND control new adds coming from behind them.
Wow, that's so not my experience at all.
Every time I've done it we've waited off to the side to let him get a good way past before following him up the tunnel… and every time utter chaos breaks loose, and an abomination lands on my head.
Maybe it's the tanks?
Kay, Imma call you on this one.
1) It isn't an exploit. Exploits have a very specific meaning. It means you will be punished if you are caught. This has not (to my knowledge, please correct if wrong) an exploit. You may hate it (see 2) but its not an exploit.
2) I don't buy your appeal being entirely about preventing trouble (see 3.) I think you just plain don't like the back method. And that is more than fine, in fact THAT'S the post I want to read! Rant about how much people skip over lore and cool stuff because there seems to be a culture of "Lore? lol, if it doesn't make me do 1% more damage, its useless." Rant about what you think, not about how it makes it hard n stuffs (again see 3.)
3) If your having a hard time with the back method, your doing it wrong ("your" being the tank, in this case.) I am a pally tank, and it is easier, not harder, to grab the adds with the back method, and no, my healers never get hurt during the fight (aside from a few whacks from ghouls, which hurt so little it doesn't count.) Come on to the Nazgrel server, and Ill show you.
That said…
I use the method the group wants to use. Usually, that means I am with friends, and they don't like the back method, so we do it the right way. I prefer it that way, because its more of a challenge, and that means more fun, and also because I (like you, I think,) don't like skipping lore stuff.
Point is, I want to see this post as you mean it, not as you think would be an effective argument. Tell me why you hate this method! (Other than the troubles you are having.)
Kudos on a great blog, btw.
My recent post Essentially Safe
Thanks for your response, a few clarifying points:
1) I called it an exploit because it's commonly referred to in the community as an exploit, not because I expect Blizz to go all Martin Fury on me if they find out I've been following Arthas instead of running from him.
Also, because I think it was not intended as a way to beat the encounter, and likely to be patched out in the future. So… perhaps not exploit next time, but …. loophole?
2) You're right, I DON'T like it. As I think I made clear. But it's not about the lore (although I do find it sad that we care so little, myself included). It really truly is about the abomination on my head. True. Sorry I can't write the post you want to read… it's not what I'm upset about.
3) I've run it with both Pally and Warrior tanks (don't think a druid/dk has come up yet) and both have had identical problems. So I'm hesitant to assume it's actually the tank causing the issue. And it isn't that I'm undergeared to heal it, I'm in mostly 232/245 gear atm.
Lastly, I do like your comment, and I mean to inspire discussion… otherwise why write? But I'm not super enthusiastic about the way you assumed you knew what I was thinking better than I did. That post came literally out of my (severe) irritation as we finished a HHOR run, took me less than ten minutes to write… The argument I made is my real feelings on the subject, not something I made up to sound more persuasive.
Mutilating the lore is cheezy. But I hate this method because it makes the fight harder for me. True.
Just a quick note on the “alternate approach” – prior to the last updates they did, if your group is a bit shy on the DPS, you could take your sweet time with the adds even if the LK caught up to Her Royal Highness. However, I was in a pug as early as two days ago on my raiding-geared Pali tank, and our DPS was not quite as high as I’d like when we actually died to Arthas catching up to Sylvanas and one-shotting the group (as he does from the front side). That said, I think Blizz did in fact “patch” the advantage out of the encounter since from the front or behind, you still have to beat Arthas to the punch…
Yeah, I agree the "dps race" aspect is (or at least was, the first time) easier from the back way. But the last group who forced me to endure it was about 13k dps combined. There was no earthly reason I should have been chasing them around like headless chickens trying to wipe the abomination puke off their faces like a toddler's mother after a cup of chocolate pudding.
Argh.
I'm so cranky! XD
Heh.
I like to run it the "right" way. I think it actually makes it easier on me… and, since I'm the tank (95% of the time, anyway), when I run out there in front… well everybody else can follow me or they can try to go tankless.
My recent post Alt-o-clock!
I've tried to talk my tanks into being ballsy like you!
I'll heal it for you anytime!
First off, regardless of whether this is an exploit, a bug, a glitch etc., It's clearly not how the encounter is supposed to be played – it not only doesn't make sense from a lore perspective, it also doesn't make sense period. The Lich King just saunters by and leaves you alone? And when the gunship collapses the tunnel and you're trapped behind the rocks with him, he's just going to let you wait there until the rocks disappear? Not to mention disappearing himself? Right…
Regarding doing it the glitched way, I've (as a healer, and as DPS) found it incredibly easier to handle. I think this is because the abominations spawn at specific points, so if the tank has done it before and knows where to wait for them to spawn, it's incredibly easy. Another thing I found that made it much easier is that the tank has much more time/space to aggro all the new adds. In the final ice wall, the mobs come in two waves, and we found that when doing it the proper way the tank would struggle to pick up all the new adds while still controlling the first wave of adds, especially since the new adds would have immediate healer aggro. But doing it the glitched way, the tank doesn't have to run around and grab them…he can drop consecrate / Death & Decay / start swiping, whatever, in the middle of the path and grab all the adds as they lumber down the path towards the healer hiding at the back.
Maybe in the groups I've been in the DPS are jumping ahead too early before the tank can get and hold aggro?
Anyway, I still hate it.
My wife agrees with you and hates healing this from behind, mostly for the aboms, and just more party damage then normal. Front way is easier, she always groans when the tanks want to do it the other way.
I'm with her 100%
Okay, time to come to jesus.
I feel the need to apologize for two things…
One, not apologizing sooner, I work evenings, so its hard to get things done in my virtual reality.
Second, for my comment. Or, rather, the tone of my comment. I have an intense, confrontational 'debate' style. If people see it coming, and see it for what it is, its effective. If they dont, I come across as an ass. (Which sometimes is effective in its own right.)
Point is, I did not assume I was correct in my assumptions. If this makes sense. I dont equivocate when I believe I am right, but I am capable of seeing when I am wrong.
I was wrong about the purpose and intent of this post.
For that, I apologize.
~~~
And, now, in the spirit of throwing bad after good, I feel I have to reiterate the only point of my comment that was valid, the only part of my comment that was about me, instead of you.
To call this an exploit is not okay. Its misleading. I wouldent really care, except for two points. Firstly, it makes it more difficult for other exploits to be identified as true exploits (and since they are actually very few and far between, people dont believe they are exploits when they are told. Boy who cries wolf.)
Secondly, exploiters are cheaters, cheaters are liars and they are plain not good people. To call this an exploit is to lump a large group of people (including myself from time to time,) into a back of the classroom bad kid group. Being bad is sexy, but not this time.
Its an opinion. I admit and accept others may see the term exploit differently, or may believe that myself and others who use this method really are scoundrels. Thats okay, I suppose it takes all types, but its my opinion that the term exploit needs to be more carefully used. (And note the non-equivocating language, I cant help it, Im a intertubez demagogue.)
Fair enough.
Thanks for the apology.
And I do see (and understand) your point about exploits, and admit it may have been a poor word choice on my part.
So I pugged into a HoR the other day, and had a group try to run off to the side when starting the encounter.
I continued on my merry way and told them "just run out in front."
One of them responded "But the back is easier!"
I didn't respond again and just continued out in front.
When we finished and one of our group got the "We're not retreating, we're advancing in a different direction!" achievement, THEN I replied with, "See, out in front is easy, too."
*sigh*
My recent post The big 5-0.
Easier or not, it is not the way the event is meant to be done. Even I'd call it an exploit.
Is it technically a WoW exploit? No. Developers have defined that as something that will get you banned. But you sure as hell are abusing the game scripting to give your self an advantage….thus I'd call it a exploit.
I ran it the first few days of the patch and never went back until the day before you posted this. On that run and ever run since I've been in groups using this method. I haven't noticed any aggro issues but still this method seems pretty weak sauce to me.
Oops. I thought standing off to the side while Arthos sauntered by was the clever thing to do. I must be corrected.
So for, I’ve not seen problems running behind Arthos. But this post reminds me of my pet peev–DK tanks death gripping the boss–on me!
/oom
Alas the 'sploit is no more. Now if you hang out back near Arthas and wait for him to saunter on by he goes all Emperor Palpatine on you with the scary black lightning.
Well I think this is solid proof that Blizzard saw this as "Not working as intended" and decided to fix the issue. Was it big enough of an issue to be called an Exploit? Probably not but still not how you are supposed to do the encounter.
My healer alt got the achievement for this instance by doing the "behind method" the night before this patch hit….I didn't feel great about getting it through this method but at least I got it done.