No I’m not talking about being too lazy to walk back after a wipe (I always run btw). I’m talking about lamenting for the days of yore when I was in my fondest guild <Resurrection> of Kel’thuzad. We were not considered by far one of the top guilds but we sure did have fun. I think our greatest accomplishment was killing Razorgore in BWL when the top guilds were in Vanilla Naxx. I ended up leaving them because of the lack of progress. Back when you had to get 40 players together to raid, if the bottom of the barrel was too heavy to carry, you never made any progression. Those who were at the top never got to see new content and eventually left. I eventually became one of those who was tired of all “raid and no reward” and moved on to only slightly greener pastures. But I have always missed several aspects of <Resurrection>.
The average guild member was married, had kids, and understood that this was a game. Even if we were the meanest, roughest, toughest guild on the server, we still had to get up the next day and turn in TPS reports with without forgetting the coversheet. One player (whom I still game with today) was notorious for leaving mid raid to go tuck in his kids. Also there seemed to be an honest concern for the players as well. In TBC there never was a core Karazhan group in which only the elite members were a part of. Things were usually shuffled up according to what days the players preferred to play. Is this method the best for running an effective guild? Depends on what you mean by effective. Did we destroy the new content the day it came out? Nope, but we did kill bosses.
I’m missing this with the guilds I’ve run with since then. The guild before my present guild was slave driven. We took down bosses but only out of fear of being screamed at if we made a mistake. My current guild is too efficient for their own good I’m afraid. It seems that this guild is more willing to gear up the main raider’s alts then to gear up a different raider. I’d say at least twice this week raids were thwarted due to “not the right make up”. We were missing a class or two and thus killed the whole raid. If you take the same 25 people night after night, instead of gearing up say 35 people, eventually things will break down because you don’t have a backup team to dip into. To me this is just dumb and not looking forward into the future. I think every guild should have enough active raiding members to run at least one 25 man and one 10 man concurrently. And those raids should consist of the exact same players each time. Everybody needs to get some time in the game otherwise the guild is doomed for failure down the road.
The other night I logged on and found I was demoted from “Initiate” (which means new guy who wants to raid with us) to casual (which means 2nd or 3rd string for when we need to fill a spot). I had been initiate for almost 2 months now and was trying my best to change that to “member” status. After being passed on several raids with my DK I spoke to the GM about this and decided that since we had way too much melee dps I’d swap to Aurdon again for raiding purposes. 1.5 weeks later I ran out of upgrades I could get from emblems of triumph and was let back into a few of the raids. Two weeks later I’m up a creek again branded as a “casual”
I suppose that “casual” is a better rank then “gkick” though. Still I spoke to the GM yet again and he shared that my DPS was never quite what they wanted it to be which halted my promotion. I however would submit that I’ve done all I could do. My dps as melee lacked as I was behind in gear before I started with this guild (you may remember me posting about being sat from raids in my last guild). So when it was obvious to me that I wasn’t going to be able to catch up with him I decided I’d try and shortcut by swapping to a needed class (range dps on Aurdon). This set me back again because the guild was pushing into ICC with ilvl 251 gear while I was sporting a few ilvl 245 and even a few ilvl 200. Add to this that my guild is Loot Council and awarding an upgrade to an initiate vs giving it to a full on raiding member doesn’t happen ….at all. I don’t know what else to say about that other then I’m pretty sure I’m performing as well as can be expected given my present gear level and I’m dependable as hell showing up to every single raid since I’ve been invited. We do run alt raids but I don’t seem to get invites to many of those either. My only options now are to pug my way into better gear but seriously, whats the point of being in a guild if you don’t do guild things? I don’t think I want to gquit because I do like what this guild can accomplish. I just wish there was room for me at the finish line.
This whole experience in WotLK raiding has all but turned me off from raiding as a DPS class. DPS are a dime a dozen. If you don’t believe me, queue dps for a daily heroic and find out. Perhaps in Cataclysm I’ll park Aurdon yet again in favor of a healing raider.
{ 16 comments… read them below or add one }
You get demoted to casual and the GM did not even have the decency to discuss it with you beforehand?
What's in this guild that you actually like?
I hope you will find another guild that will treat you like a human being, and when you do you will wonder how you ever were able to stick it out in this horrible demoralising guild you are in now.
Well its even a bit worse then that, it was one of the officers. When I spoke to the GM about it he said to talk to the officer who did the "cleaning house". I did get him to admit why they didn't feel I fit in with the main raiding group.
What I like about the guild is their ability to clear bosses without screeming and yelling at the players. In the last guild I was in, I had been subject to that since SSC at least. Being able to clear content without public ridicule is kinda nice.
I guess I'm just most upset that so many things about my playing and attempts at raiding are largely unnoticed. Kind of a "bring the player not the class" mentality but this guild views my "player" as not being able to meet their expectations.
I have to agree with Tessy here. You're doing your best and getting nowhere? Time to get out.
…….but I haaaaaaaaaaaaate guild hunting
Yeah, tbh it's really hard to see what's keeping you in that guild. You never seemed to be that kind of guy who wanted a certain guild tag just because of the status in it (number xx on the server progression list). Find a guild who needs you and wants you – even if it might be slightly lesser progressed. I'm sure there is a home for you somewhere.
That might be my issue. I do kind of like the status of being 3rd horde guild on KT, 5th overall. When I do get in a raid, I have a great time. But is it really worth all this headache? Probably not. I think somewhere I must have got caught up in running with a crowd that I usually don't game with.
With things as they are, my options now seem to be give up regular raiding or find that guild out there that cares more about cultivating strong longtime players then the newest most geared transfer ready to raid. With this guild 8-9k dps avg on boss fights = instant friend slot. /sigh
I agree with everybody too, best to find a guild who wants you that you'll have more fun in and will perhaps have the decency to speak to you if they feel you could improve in some way or anything they might need to say that this guild seems to have bypassed.
Also, good luck finding somewhere
My recent post The Week #9
In a way though it feels like I've just moved to a new apartment and breaking the lease this early is going to be costly. The last apartment was full of loud noises of the abusive neighbors yelling and beating each other all night long. This new location seems to be full of a younger party-all-the-time crowed with good music and hot women (all metaphorically speaking) but I'm never invited to any of said parties. And when I do, I get the paranoid feeling that somebody across the room is always thinking "who invited the nerd".
I could up and leave again and try and find yet another place to stay but there is that nagging feeling that if I hang around long enough people will just grow accustomed to me and I'll feel more welcome. Nobody is out to get me with pitchforks and torches…they just aren't too friendly atm. Perhaps if I give up the attitude of "I WANT TO PARTY EVERY TIME THEY ARE!!!" and just lurk about for a while, I'll be in a prime spot to go to some "Cataclysmic" parties later. Does that seem shallow?
Do you sometimes get disheartened by reading other people's blogs where all these people seem to have found great guilds that are full of friends and mature adult people, not 21 year old college kids that show up for raids drunk and metaphorically pot-scented?
I know I do.
When you find that guild, let me know.
I'll have an application in right behind yours.
Maybe we need to show Kel'thuzad the way to run a guild. "WITH OUR POWERS COMBINED…."
Epic Adventurers, US Baelgun.
I won't say that we don't have our share of silly guild drama, and I won't say that we necessarily clear all the latest content as fast as possible (despite some of us moving into ICC we still haven't cleared Ulduar as a guild…) but for the most part we're a pretty mature and laid back group!
My recent post The Guns of Icecrown Citadel
I HAZ A GUILDZ ‘N TABBARDZ ‘N BANK
but oh yeah… No raiders…
I get the occasional invite to guilds.
I get the occasional invite to mate’s guilds raids an occasionally to their guilds.
But I figure now that I’m that 30 something (in RL much older) that has done the sharehouse, pub 24/7 thing and I’m happy to live alone, catch up with friends regularly, but informally and drop into the occasional pu(b)g with like minded people.
As bad as pigging feels sometimes, right now there is a wealth of bodies wanting to run. Sure you would be at the mercy of the /roll, but at least getting a shot at the gear.
I’m sure you are motivated enough to initiate pug raids,
Knowledgeable enough to identify reasonably geared players without arbitry GS checks, and
patient enough to explain encounters to people that won’t admit to never seeing them before.
At 1st glance this will seem like a hard way to do it, and it is and will be, initially at least. The thing is, you are not alone.
Picking a number from thin air, there is probably a million other people like you (maybe even me) that could do more under the right circumstances, but that neither involves being in someone else’s guild nor running your own.
In a couple of weeks you will have 4+ key, like minded individuals… Mercenaries (or was it Rhonin) a group guided by princples but not affiliated with any one organisation or family.
As we all know, most people have one friend, so once you have 4+ people on a semi-regular basis you will have access to 10,15,20 likeminded individuals.
If need be advertise your PuG “Guild” on the realm forums, telling people to pat you at 7pm each night.
Needless to say this won’t be completely self serving, others will gain significantly through this process, but likewise you will be:
- Gearing
- Learning
- Making a name for yourself.
Don’t hunt for guilds, get head hunted!
At the bare minimum you will find random invites coming your way from good guilds because you helped the GM’s little bro out, maybe even the GM’s secret alt.
It took my last guild 9 months to ask the question “Who is this?”. Meanwhile I saw more content than they ever would have shown me.
The Alt run is a guild disease. Once that starts the standbuys never get a run, because the guild will bring the player, not the classe… Thing is it will always be the same 25 players…
"The Alt run is a guild disease. Once that starts the standbuys never get a run, because the guild will bring the player, not the classe… Thing is it will always be the same 25 players…"
This = truth
It's sad too because gearing up 35 players capable of a 25 man raid is so much more valuable. But there really isn't anything out side of ICC atm that I need because ToGC 25 man. And having to pug my way into good standing with my guild? That doesn't sound worth the effort honestly. By the time I get to that point then this game has become a chore for me and I don't want it to turn into work. I've worked hard enough all ready to get where I am and the thought of anymore will remove any enjoyment this game still gives me.
You may want to consider joining a smaller guild with less competition for the raiding spots.
To me it seems that your current guild isnt really a bad one, it's just that the bigger the guild, the more mouths to feed.
Also the raidleaders must think about the guilds best when inviting to a raid, when a team mate pulls down the group too much it could jeopardise the progress, but thats to state the obvious maybe ^^
Anywho, I don't think it's fair of them to giscard you as they seem to do, they should make sure they gear you up, and maybe have your class officer guide you to the best builds and rotations.
Ok, so if you want to stay in your guild, and want to gear up, it seems you haveto take the matter in your own hands. Pug as many raids as possible, especially ony and toc10/25. You said you also have ilvl200's equipped, that means you could also get gear improvement from the lower raiding instances, ex. nax25 and uld.
Also, make sure to do the daily hc and weekly raid.
Puging can actually be really fun, you meet alot of nice ppl among the idiots, and being nice back will eventually give you guild invites or a rememberd name for upcoming pugs
I think the route I'll be taking is Pugging where possible and generally making my self available to be taken when needed otherwise. Its why I'm rushing the last few levels on my shaman now. Then I'll have a healer in badge gear that can go to raids when needed so hopefully I'll get to play some class.
I more or less want to at least "see" all of these encounters before Cataclysm comes out. If I can beat Arthas in 10 or 25 man regular mode I'd be happy. I don't have to clear all of ICC in hard modes and get another mount to feel successful at the game.
Like you, I was demoted and lost my raid slot. My response was to leave the guild. Unlike you, I was raiding regularly, but loot council never awarded me gear. Two weeks later I applied to another raiding guild because they were actively recruiting a mage. Within a couple of weeks I was a new mage.
I doubt anything you do will get your dps up to their standard short of finding a regular raid slot. The fact is, by the time you get your mage ICC ready with badge vendor gear, Blizzard will have dropped new content requiring yet higher tiers. The regular raiders will have it, you won’t.
I’m impressed from your post that your guild is a great one if they can use you. Perhaps you can communicate to the GM that you desire to find a regular raid slot in another guild but desire to return when your gear is on level with its regular raiders.